Kommonn Kornish Konspiracy Klub

Ah, conspiracy theories. The last bastion of hope for the KK lunatic fringe, run down by facts and reason, and backed into a corner, scared, frightened, and ready to lash out in a last ditch attempt.

This will be an ongoing series that takes a look at some of the more ridiculous conspiracy theories that KK extremists dream up in an attempt to explain their failed arguments, but only act to strengthen the view of them as being in a deep, deep denial.

Goky: Truru is just another attack rabid dog from the Everson camp, his/it's mind was made up before it joined the forum

Goky: I am not surprised, you are part of the KS cult from the start, you are only claiming to have looked elsewhere for help, that is quite evident, a Christian cult mixed in with the Spelly cult? that could get nasty

Goky: Cardor's spelling of Kernowek, gives him away as a Spelly cultist, so the post was not genuine.

Keith Bailey: it's just a smokescreen to disrupt the Revival, damage the Language Board, and wriggle out of their charter obligation to do something positive for the language.

Keith Bailey: It should be quite obvious to everyone by now that this really has little to do with spelling or the language at all, but has rather a lot to do with politics and funding. There has been a clever attempt to screw up the Revival, weaken and sideline our native institutions (especially the Language Board), and divert most of the money that was intended to support the language. [...] And since the language provides an important argument for the special status of Cornwall, this was a very obvious way to ridicule the whole 'nationalist' movement.

More lies from Keith

Keith likes to use propaganda and disinformation on unsuspecting newcomers:

It is actually quite tragic that several people who are otherwise stoutly pro-Cornwall, have been so brainwashed by the English language, culture, education system etc., that they identify with anglicised forms of Cornish words and names,

Keith seems to think the language spoken by thousands of Cornish people centuries ago (you know, the one we're trying to revive), wasn't actually real Cornish. In fact he seems to think Cornish should be changed to look more German than Cornish. His fanatical anti-English sentiment has long infused itself into his opinons, and luckily for the Cornish language, it's ignored by most.

and indeed set themselves against the bulk of Cornish speakers

Another lie, KK users aren't "the bulk", they were 55% in 2008 (MAGA/CLP Survey), and presenting that as fact now after the SWF and KS were introduced is merely using out-of-date data to further his already weak arguments.

and work to undermine our home-grown established institutions, preferring to support top-down structures and decisions opposed upon us.

The "home-grown established institution" he refers to is the BNP of the revival, the Kesva, with its extremist KK viewpoints, and which he portrays as the be-all-and-end-all of the Cornish language, but who after 40 years still couldn't unify the language so a Council body was created. A body that the Kesva is represented on, by the way.

How can they be so misguided?

How can he stoop so low?

How many other times has KK extremists' propaganda been proven wrong?

In the past each camp has accused each other of making up figures for the amount of Cornish speakers that use their preferred orthography.

This back and forth generally stopped after the CLP/MAGA produced its report on the Cornish language survey in July 2008. The figure for KK usage was given at only 55%.

Here's an interesting set of quotes, before the report came out, where Marhak accurately predicted the number of non-KK users. KK extremists, blind to anything that resembles truth, responded with ridicule. The KK responses are in red:

Marhak: No, you can't fool people all of the time and that's why, over the last 20 years, 45%of Cornish users have solidly rejected the KK system.

Nothlenn: Sheer fabrication and distortion and, if there's any truth in these figures as they stand today {they don't, by the way!] indoctrination along the lines of bull**** baffles brains!

Bardh: I conclude that when Craig says that 45% of Cornish-speakers support the shifting alliance of anti-democratic groupuscules trying to derail the revival of our language, he means that he wants 45% to do this. (On a good day, by conscripting distant cousins and indulgent aunts, they might be able to drum up an absolute number of 45 ...)

Pdunbar: Try increasing the size of the image on your screen, Craig - you have missed out the decimal point between the 4 and the 5.

Marhak: Nope, nothing wrong with my computer screen. Definitely no decimal point. 45%-55% it remains. Let's not promote yet another of Tim's urban legends.

Palores: These would be Kernewek Kemmyn, with which 80% of speakers are reasonably content; a Late Cornish form (preferably linked to Kemmyn), to satisfy the 10% who use a Late base; and an "authentic" form for the other 10%.

Marhak: Now it's 80% KK,10% LC and 10% UC/UCR, is it? Back to the propagandist fiction. There's a clear message from the SWF, Palores - it's too late for playing the numbers game. It's a dead duck. Or should that be chough?

Here's some more fiction from the hardcore KK extremists:

Tim Saunders (Bardh): 'We don't want the cows to keep eating poisoned hay' is
a recent bon mot from Michael Everson on 90% of Cornish-speakers and their
written language.

Tim Saunders, responding to Dan Prohaska’s "Nobody in Cornwall actually speaks
Kernewek Kemmyn", and failing to recognise the speak/write distinction: There are three possible interpretations for this remarkable proposition. Which of them does Dan wish us to understand by it? 1. 'I am a bit of a leg-puller.' 2. 'When in Cornwall, I make a point of avoiding 90% of Cornish-speakers.' 3. 'I have forgotten to take my tablets.'

Tim Saunders: So when the 'compromise' is announced, the release says that every group except one has accepted the FFF, and thereby conceals the fact that the representatives of 90% have just been outmanouvred behind closed doors.

Ryzvel: 90% of the Cornish-speaking community [referring to KK users] display no interest in what you call'authenticity'.

Now that the statistics given by KK extremists, long dismissed by more rational people, have been recently disproved by the Cornish Language Partnership, and the statistics given by people advocating authentic Cornish were right all along (they were even underestimating if people who use more than one form are taken into account!), who should be listened to in the future, and who should be ignored?




If I were to give my own (very) rough estimate, after looking at the MAGA report, and taking into consideration those that use more than one form to write, it would be of a 50/50 split between KK users and RLC/UC/UCR users in early 2008. How the SWF or KS has changed that since then, if at all, is pure speculation until hard facts are known.

Goky hearts the 80s

Like most KK extremists Goky is stuck in the 80s.




Goky's been telling people that KK is "the orthography of 2009", which considering it's actually the orthography of 1987, has got to be quite high on the list of 80's related bullshit, along with "there's nothing wrong with asbestos", "Communism works", "we won't need another Live Aid", and "the flock of seagulls look will last forever".

Given that the latest speculative projections indicate that KK's user base is actually dropping, and at an even faster rate after 2008's introduction of orthographies that actually look like Cornish did, instead of some kind of artifical Celtic-German hybrid, what will be the orthography of the 2010s?

Nyns eus ger rag "compromise" dhe Gemmynek

A short post today, as the quotes speak for themselves and don't really need much comment.

Keith has been accusing people of refusing to compromise:

you do not appreciate the concept of 'compromise', i.e. you are not prepared to give an inch in the interest of reconciliation.

What he fails to remember is the hugely stubborn attitudes of the KK extremists (including himself) who refused to compromise when the Standard Written Form was being worked on:

P_Trembath: "Are you "For", the SWF, are you "Against" the SWF, or are you as yet "Undecided"?" (link)

morvran: "Against"

Palores: "Against"

Pdunbar: "NO"

Ken George (1st LWG meeting): "There will be no compromise"

Bardh: "If the Language Partnership wishes to be taken seriously, it'll confirm the sheer demographic and linguistic fact that the Cornish-speaking community as a whole made its firm decision long ago. If it tries to defy the facts, it'll be ignored." (link)

Oh dear.

Kommonn Kornish: Holier than God?

Over six months ago Cowethas Peran Sans contacted a number of Cornish societies, including Kesva an Taves Kernewek, looking for help in translating the Cornish Daily Prayer book into one of the modern Cornish orthographies (the first edition was written in UCR in 2004). The only response was from Agan Tavas, and a new version of the book was subsequently published in KS by Evertype.

Now I'm not a member of Agan Tavas and I don't use KS, but I find it rather disappointing that none of the other orthographies or language societies decided to respond. I'd imagine that a Cornish Daily Prayer book would be one of the more popular works a language organisation could publish. I also find it unsurprising that people who so often spread the disinformation that KK is the "most useful and popular" orthography, including the extremists in the KK camp that deride any material that isn't published in KK, are unwilling to help produce more Cornish language material when asked.




Goky spent most of the relevant discussion on C24 spouting the typed equivalent of Tourette's syndrome and railing against the book being published in KS. He suggested it should have been written in the SWF, and actually offered to translate it:

"if you want me to do it I will do it for you, I have ordered your book and will re-edit it into the SWF for you. I will make a PDF file for you and you will be all set to go"

His offer was accepted and it was suggested that he send them his email address so they can send him text to translate. Yesterday I was informed that Goky never got in touch with them.

Not entirely honourable behaviour Goky! But then again we all know, that when it comes down to it, absolutely nothing that has your name next to it should be treated as though it has any sincerity or worth.


If these two examples show how people in the Kernewek Kemmyn camp treat others who have asked for help, then they really shouldn't be wondering why so much progress has been made in the revival without them.

The Kauze for Keith'z Kommonn Kornish Kraze

Keith Bailey seems to think people are mistaking Cornish for badly spelled English:

"Not anti-English for the sake of it, although if that appeals to some people, so much the better. But it's really a question of respecting Cornish as it's own language, not just "funny English". If it's its own language, then it needs and deserves it own 'clothing', not some ill-fitting hand-me-down from Big Brother."

Does he really think this? Or is it just a result of his fierce anti-English sentiment?

"Cornish is quite different from English, surely it's good propaganda to make it look as different as possible, to drive home the point that Cornwall is a separate nation with it's own separate language, not just "naughty English"."

We're supposed to be reviving a language as it was written before it "died", Keith, not constructing some kind of false anti-English propaganda tool. Are you really interested in restarting the Cornish language and actually turning it into a community language in Cornwall, or are you more interested in using it for nationalistic purposes?


Keith's obsession with driving out what he sees as English or other language corruptions at the expense of the integrity of the language itself would prove otherwise. He's recently started infusing his Cornish writing with z's where s's should be, something I haven't seen in any KK material. If he was truly interested in supporting Kernewek Kemmyn, and the Cornish language as a whole, wouldn't he keep writing the standard and agreed KK orthography until it is revised, then switch over?

Doesn't jumping on the z-bandwagon before KK users have even agreed to the revision show that he's more interested in anything that pushes Cornish away from supposed "foreign corruptions", than promoting KK as what he believes is the most suitable orthography by actually using it?